tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post5764279319713559968..comments2013-07-01T13:39:15.915-06:00Comments on Gospel of Nispio: An Opposition in All Things (Part 2)Joshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14106413952484551553noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-74214392513759736772013-04-18T22:24:17.439-06:002013-04-18T22:24:17.439-06:00I struggle on these concepts a little since I only...I struggle on these concepts a little since I only have access to our laws. So my simple understanding gets stuck on the "ceases to be God" quote from Alma regarding the law... But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-62650800381918885562013-04-18T22:18:16.187-06:002013-04-18T22:18:16.187-06:00Nibley says:
Verse 7: “Behold, he offereth himself...Nibley says:<br />Verse 7: “Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends [the set terms] of the law be answered.” This is where you come in, you have to be able to accept this. Merely keeping the law isn’t going to do it. You can keep the set terms and the ends and escape the sentences etc., but this is another thing entirely, you notice, a broken heart and a contrite spirit. A court can’t test you on that or anything else like that. They can’t look into your heart; they have to deal with facts, always with facts. Of course, this is silly. “Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth [this great gulf between us and reality], that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God.” That is the question, you see. Standing up in the court and getting cleared by the judge or the jury is one thing. But standing in the presence of God who can see everything, every flaw and everything you have in you, that’s another thing. We would rather have the rocks and the mountains cover us than have to do that. That’s the worst torment we can have—worse than any hell. Anything but that, you see. [People might say], “Give us hell, we can enjoy hell, but don’t let us have to do that.” Well, that’s true. That’s the hardest thing we could do, to be so completely out of place. Hell is a place where you are out of place, where you don’t want to be. But the worst thing about hell is that you belong there, that you are among your own kind, etc.Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-51729228614845416902013-04-08T21:13:44.922-06:002013-04-08T21:13:44.922-06:00What do you think it means to "answer the end...What do you think it means to "answer the ends of the law?" Is it possible for some laws to be "broken?" If so, what does that mean?Joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-32662934544006199332013-04-05T09:31:37.085-06:002013-04-05T09:31:37.085-06:00It seems like there may be a few different connota...It seems like there may be a few different connotations of "law." Some laws are eternal in scope and apply universally, and others are laws given by way of commandment. I agree that Moroni flew in the face (no pun intended) of what we understand to be the laws of physics, but surely his movements were still governed by some physical law. This law likely has no beginning and no end, and cannot be "broken."<br /><br />I remember a <a href="http://youtu.be/x4WDl4ozam8?t=5m41s" rel="nofollow">funny seminary video</a> that had a lesson that has always stuck with me. You can watch it for yourself if you like, but the part that I have always remembered from it is that laws do not restrict, rather "laws tell us which choice is right, and which choice is wrong." When we make a choice, we are also choosing the consequence that is attached to that choice, whether it is good or bad. In that sense, to "break the law" doesn't necessarily mean that the law has no effect on you, it means that you made a choice with a negative consequence attached, as described by the law. (<a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130.20-21?lang=eng#19" rel="nofollow">D&C 130:20-21</a>Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14106413952484551553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-56769750329099316252013-04-05T07:22:30.377-06:002013-04-05T07:22:30.377-06:00That was well said. I agree with what I think you...That was well said. I agree with what I think you were saying - that Christ answers the ends of the law by fulfilling it to the furthest extremes.<br /><br />As for "breaking" laws, I think sometimes we enforce laws that are consistent with our understanding of how things work, but that are not consistent with the way that God works. <br /><br />For example, I am not aware of a way to levitate or fly up through my ceiling without some external means of locomotion. Nor can I pass through said ceiling without breaking a hole in it. Moroni did pass through the ceiling and did levitate or fly up (and down, for that matter) when he visited Joseph Smith. I can hypothesize how he might have been able to do some of those things, but I don't know and I have no laws that can account for that. In our perception of the universe, he violated or "broke" several laws. As such, he must be subject to some higher set of laws that allow him to do what he did. It may be that our law is insufficient to describe what he did, and therefore is conditional upon the state in which you live and your perception of things, or it may be that it is not a law at all, but only the best explanation that we can come up with for what goes on around us. But either way, the "laws of the universe", as we understand them, were broken, or at least appear to be.<br /><br />I guess my point is this: Laws that we have established may or may not be true laws in all spheres of existence. Furthermore, there may be higher laws and means of acting that supersede the laws as we understand them. Either way, laws can be broken in this manner.<br /><br />As for laws that God has established, they are effective in the spheres where he has defined them and those who are subject to them may not break them without consequence, but they may still be broken. I suppose we could get into a discussion of what "those who are not subject to them" could do, but its rather far afield and I'm not sure who or what would fall into that category.<br /><br />DavidDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02043719655747698145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3939808284074781951.post-87800522816753042812013-04-04T09:34:06.705-06:002013-04-04T09:34:06.705-06:00What do you think it means to "answer the end...What do you think it means to "answer the ends of the law?" Is it possible for some laws to be "broken?" If so, what does that mean?Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14106413952484551553noreply@blogger.com